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2 years, 4 months ago
Bass words of the musician

In line – one more transcript of our podcast "Sound". In the fifth release (3.02.2014) we decided to open a series of conversations with experts from the world of music therefore Timofey Shikolenkov interviewed Daniel Dobosch playing on percussions in young band of VSV on a bass. Interview came out very live, and we managed to expose once again a couple of myths, to formulate a number of a practical advice and outputs.

[To listen to this release]

[In more detail about a podcast]

Transcripts of other transfers

Timofey: The main subject about which speak and on which compare [audio] the equipment is a bass. This subject in Russia nearly fundamental. When ask about the equipment, answer that it has to "hollow normally".

It becomes clear that people understand absolutely different things as a bass. At your look, a look of the person which plays on percussions: what is a bass as you imagine it? How you listen to it, for example, at home? As far as this [house] bass resembles that you hear when you play the musical instrument? What you on this subject can tell interesting?

Daniel: For a start, it seems to me that this story about a super-powerful shock bass concerns not only Russia, but also America where people just like to hang out. To be going and so horoshenechko "to vmochit" that it was heard to all neighbors, to friends, someone through the street, and about the machine all would gather, began to fry a barbecue, etc. Well as usual it happens. The main thing that it was loud and beat the head.

For me the bass is, first of all, a bass guitar. It is not the most powerful giving, itself panch which people try to receive from the stereosystems, putting huge subwoofers, buying huge columns. The melodic component is important for me: first of all, it it has to be normally heard. That not just the bass "muttered", and there was a continuous "wadded" blow, let not "wadded", but powerful behind which nothing is heard. The main thing that notes were read, and was interesting to monitor a tune which is performed by a bass.

No matter, electronic it is music either classical, or rock music. It is the tool, on it the person plays, and he tries to inform of something. There is a barrel, it is called "bass barrel". It does not play a bass role, it beats a pulsation, it just and there is a panch-blow. And all the rest is a business of the guitarist, bass guitarist, contrabass player. For me and not strongly stuck out the main thing that it [bass] was heard. So "like" to do in many earphones, in many cheap speaker systems – the bass directly prt, but it is "wadded".

Timofey: In general I had a feeling that when you listen to some absolutely cheap systems, there is no blow of a bass barrel at all, it is not heard.

Daniel: It, it seems as, is, but it all some "in porridge". Pure, final, no. But something is, and the person thinks that it is a bass. He hears something "on bottoms", and thinks that it is a bass.

Timofey: "Low frequencies" – at different people absolutely different vision of this concept. When they on the cheap equipment add low frequencies, they actually do not add a bass, truly?

Daniel: By and large and. The overload in system and bigger "porridge" turns out.

Timofey: The bass from it does not appear?

Daniel: Appears, but some not musical: not that which would have to appear.

Timofey: That is it turns out that there are such systems which cannot reproduce a bass in principle. I, by the way, for the first time really heard a bass barrel in record when the first time appeared in Audiomaniya a few years ago, did not work yet, and to me included some demonstration record – then I understood what is a bass. I not just heard it, I also felt it.

It turns out to reproduce this bass, some very big columns are necessary? There is such myth, maybe, we will confirm it or we will disprove: if in a column the loudspeaker is less than 15 inches, then it is not able to reproduce this bass. How at you on feelings? How strongly what you play in group, from what you listen, for example, on the Hi-Fi equipment to differs?

Daniel: It seems to me to write this bass, probably, big loudspeakers are really necessary. Different: and 10, 15 and 20 inches. Because the bass happens different: both mid-frequency, and superlow-frequency. And some huge loudspeaker can be put that to write superbottoms.

These are professional speaker systems for record by means of which the sound producer cuts all alias frequencies, does a normal mix. And they not bad play, it seems to me, and on 10-inch loudspeakers and a bass win back. Everything depends on volume, on pressure which the loudspeaker creates.

Clear business that we will not receive the superpowerful pressure which will sound the area in 40 squares from one 10-inch loudspeaker. At the same time on an average or on a low sound the excellent bass which it will be heard will turn out. Even there will be a feeling that something hits into breasts.

Let's take the same small earphones, there the loudspeaker absolutely small, but at the same time there is also very low bass, and it is well heard too. Therefore, I think, everything depends on sound pressure which needs to be received as a result. If the person wants to receive a shock wave which can break a wall or to wake the neighbor since morning, let buys 15-20-inch loudspeakers, amplifiers on sound kilowatts. The counter at it will turn just at reckless speed. At the same time something will be necessary and with high [frequencies] to do, and with the middle. It is the difficult moment too.

Home systems which I saw perfectly win back, even small columns. I was surprised – let there will be an advertizing, but [to take] the same Arslab or Penaudio: I was shocked, and MC too. Small columns issue rather decent bass. Clear business, not on the biggest volume.

Bass words of the musician
Half-internal acoustics of Arslab Emotion 1 SE is compact and intended for small rooms – engineers worked over that the bass in it really "sounded"

Timofey: It is possible to draw a conclusion that if we do not need to reproduce especially low bass with very high volume, then houses are not necessary to us huge columns at all. If we just want to listen with comfort to favourite music in which, naturally, there is a bass component which is an element of the drive, receipt of emotions, then we do not say that huge columns with huge loudspeakers are necessary.

Daniel: Of course, are not necessary. If there is not enough feeling of a giant bass, it is possible to purchase a subwoofer of the small size. And it is even convenient to hide it that it was not visible and to find a convenient arrangement that it sounded perfectly. Columns can stand rather close to the listener and to be hidden somewhere in the room, the subwoofer can be set somewhere imperceptibly too. But it if is not enough [basses], and at us as I understand, their is not enough for much.

Timofey: Perhaps just it seems what is not enough. Perhaps, actually only it is enough. Just there is a traditional desire to add low frequencies that it seemed that the sound is better or that basses are transferred more effectively.

Daniel: Yes, is not present. All want to be hit just physical feeling of pleasant vibration on a body. I think, it very well relaxes the person. Aurally the difference, of course, is, but small.

Timofey: It turns out that we speak not only about perception of the sound, but also about the whole range of other feelings without which there is no full listening.

Daniel: It turns out that yes.

Timofey: Roughly speaking, we can take couple of small columns, put them on racks, hide or locate successfully a subwoofer in our apartment which, as a rule, has a large number of furniture. And then, in spite of the fact that we have not huge columns with huge loudspeakers, we will receive feelings which can be compared to feelings from listening of a live concert, a live bass. It is possible so to try to compare, or it is incorrect?

Daniel: It is possible, but concerts too different happen. If to take a huge site, there about sound quality of the speech does not go. There is a main thing that everything was heard, the main thing to transfer power to big stadium. Such bass it is impossible to receive houses, probably.

Timofey: And it is necessary?

Daniel: Also it is not necessary. Once I was at a concert of electronic music, in my opinion, it was Pichez [Peaches], I never heard it. I do not know, advertizing again or not, there were professional Funktion-One speaker systems. They issued so powerful sound! It was rather pure and good, but it was so powerful that all my body vibrated, and the shirt shook. The sound was quite good, but it was search and there was a wish to depart somewhere. Many people like something similar, and they want the house same to arrange.

Timofey: And if just it is more silent to make? Or then the effect will be lost?

Daniel: Probably, it would be lost. So it turns out directly raskolbas, people go crazy and begin to dance, perform mad things.

Timofey: It from volume? Or it is some other feelings?

Daniel: I think, it both the volume, and tactile feelings.

Timofey: That is all at once, all in a complex. We just found out that, in principle, at home it is possible to gain the same effect thanks to small systems.

Daniel: Yes, and houses after all there is a wish to listen to music, but not to jump to a ceiling, to run, be pushed and dance. There is very deeply a wish to listen to composition, all tools and to enjoy music, but not to receive just a shock wave.

Timofey: And if there is a wish to receive a shock wave?

Daniel: It is possible always, but larger sizes are for this purpose necessary. Optional 15 inches, it, however, are a lot of.

Timofey: Apprx. We came that at home, in general, it is optional to have something huge because problems of listening of music of the house differ a little.

Daniel: Yes.

Timofey: We want comfortable listening and if we collect any party, then we solve the same problems, having a subwoofer or pair of not really small speaker systems. And we hear this bass if the system is able to reproduce it. If it is really qualitative system, then all of us hear it, and huge columns for this purpose are not necessary.

Daniel: I think and. Well and the most important, is much more pleasant to listen to a bass, than to receive a simple kick. It is more pleasant to enjoy music, than a pick hammer.

Timofey: The question of neighbors, probably, too arises.

Daniel: Yes, of course. Plus to all other, sound producers prepare records for reproduction in house conditions, and the line of a bass is prepared for home speaker systems too. They do not demand such reproduction, as in studios at record any more.

Timofey: I do not know how correct question, your opinion where there is a pricing edge? Where speaker systems which can reproduce this bass and where those which cannot yet come to an end begin? Give approximate advice to listeners who want to receive houses "that this bass".

It is clear, that all columns look equally: it is some box from which something reaches, but all of them stand differently. Unfortunately, as we already spoke in last releases, it is impossible to find any universtalny characteristics which could prove this or that choice. Even if they were also published, they would be unclear.

Therefore those characteristics which are published – frequency ranges, as a rule, all identical power practically does not speak about anything because it can be measured differently. We can reproduce a sound of low quality, for example, powerfully: roughly speaking, we will not see characteristics of quality in technical characteristics in online stores, we do not realize them.

The indirect characteristic is the price. We can estimate that there are speaker systems for some determined price which can reproduce something more or less probably. Therefore such question: where that edge of the price below which in columns to look for a bass it is useless?

Daniel: On my feelings, for half-resident students [this edge] from 20 thousand begins. Of course, the higher, the better, but the average price, probably, 50 [thousands – at this level] all will sound already well. But 20 thousand are cheaper, it seems to me, it will be difficult to find something. Perhaps, there are for 20 thousand some copies, but it is necessary to listen to it.

On light you do not pereslushat everything and worldwide you will not go round, you will not have heard plenty even at exhibitions. Is and is slightly cheaper, but here already compromises go. Or compromise in materials, or in the device of the most speaker system. Even for 20 thousand all the same the compromise in finishing materials already is. Because if [for this money] the stuffing is stuffed excellent, columns sound fine, then about a super rare interline interval of the speech does not go any more. There will be a classical finishing, but nothing terrible. But they will qualitatively play.

Timofey: Roughly speaking, the person can select for himself that to him it is more important: qualitative sound or qualitative appearance.

Daniel: Yes, probably, already such dilemma begins here: it is necessary or to enter in an interior that the wife was glad, or to listen to music and to derive pleasure from music. Further, it is clear that the acoustics is more expensive, the execution is more interesting, but all the same there is a lot of difficulties. It already depends on firm vendor who has what policy of sound reproduction.

Bass words of the musician
One more example of plolchny acoustics for small spaces (that is, for example, for the apartment of rather small sizes) – Penaudio Rebel. And in this case developers also paid special attention to a bass

Timofey: There is a loaded question. We, in general, discussed it, but there is a wish from you as from the professional musician to hear council how professional speaker system is pertinent at home? In a varying degree professional. It can be club acoustics or acoustics for studio in which sound producers work.

Daniel: I think, especially is not pertinent if only you not beginning sound producer or want the house to do electronic music. Please, then it is possible to purchase monitor columns. As for club sound reproduction, big these "coffins" of the house are not interesting and absolutely useless it is necessary to have the big apartment or the house at all because it is what?

Timofey: And in the small apartment what with them will be?

Daniel: Yes anything. They will stand, and music will be listened more likely by neighbors, but not you. All blow will go for a wall, down, upward, there neighbors already, probably, will receive complete gamma of pleasure from reproduction of music.

Timofey: And if it is more silent to make?

Daniel: Then they will not give sufficient blow which are expected. The professional equipment has the minimum volume of reproduction and maximum too. There is a range in which they work as it is necessary, reproduce also sounds well, and on balance everything is healthy. Blockages on high frequencies will already be lower, is louder – on low.

But, after all, they are expected long distance, but not listening directly near an ear. Meters on 5-10 they are calculated, some on 3 meters. Different columns – on different distances.

Timofey: The desire to receive this bass of the house in no way is not solved purchase of professional acoustics, big, scenic, club.

Daniel: I think, no. To listen to this bass, it seems to me, it is necessary to descend in conservatory and to enjoy this music with excellent acoustics.

Timofey: It is somehow strange to hear council "to descend in conservatory" from the person who plays heavy music.

Daniel: And why is not present? Music is a uniform organism, the uniform being who is just realized in different genres and who is differently played. But basis one. And sounds, in principle, have an identical basis. Just somewhere they electric, electronically processed, somewhere they analog completely. But, to understand what is a bass, it is necessary to listen at first to a grand piano in good acoustics. At the lowest frequencies there are these vibrations, very powerful.

Timofey: But I interrupted you concerning monitor systems of the house. It would seem, it the same. Than the monitor sound for the inhabitant is bad?

Daniel: Actually, it not really and pleasant. If people want to derive pleasure from music, but not to hear everything that there occurs.

Timofey: And what bad if we hear everything? There is besides a myth or not the myth: people say that they want to hear this, real, truthful sound. The desire to purchase a professional equipment, monitor acoustics is also based on it.

Daniel: The matter is that, having purchased professional monitor speaker systems, the person will listen to houses, probably, the records prepared for home system. Respectively, something [in a sound] will get a little another.

Monitors serve as the working tool for the sound producer to work with material to cut unnecessary pieces, to clean some frequencies. That to the sound producer everything was heard in material with which it works, but not to listen to the end result which will well sound because he will finish it then all the same and to prepare for carriers.

To vinyl there will be one mastering, to a network – another. It is already other history. Even the end result on professional monitors sounds a little in a different way, than on speaker systems. All the same everything prepares for home speaker systems.

Timofey: A problem in material. If could get the source code of any record, it would sound on monitors better, than on home system?

Daniel: It would sound not better, it just would sound with higher quality. More parts, both good, and parasitic sounds would be heard. That's all. It is just very thin tool. Why to cut cheese a medical scalpel?

Timofey: Good comparison. It is pleasant to me.

Daniel: Same it is useless. It long, boringly …

Timofey: But very precisely.

Daniel: Very precisely, but in general not quickly and inconveniently. To the contrary, it is somehow bad to do operations by a kitchen knife too. Also and here. It is very thin tool, but it for work.

Timofey: We can advise our listeners who want to learn what is this bass, to descend on this concert?

Daniel: Yes, I think and. To listen to these acoustic tools to understand that the bass is not only blow, but also this sound, this tune, first of all.

After that the consciousness at people changes. At me exchanged, and at many people, I think after they heard something this. The organ music too very fine helps with this plan, there too there are a lot of low frequencies. Just you cease to think about a bass as about something simple, shock, powerful as love at us in machines to do often.

You begin to think more of music, of its execution because even this blow and can make some loudspeaker at a certain frequency, but he cannot win back a message a range of bass frequency. This problems of all cheap speaker systems. They reproduce only blow and a sound at a certain frequency. It is [frequency] very small, loudspeakers can byl small, the body is badly prepared therefore harmony vanishes, music vanishes, there is only a blow.

Timofey: We hear that the drummer is there, but as we it do not hear a musical instrument.

Daniel: Yes, therefore people often say that they do not hear the bass guitarist in songs. Because often it plays a rhythm with a barrel and it seems that actually the barrel only sounds. Many batches are simply not heard. After I heard high-quality speaker systems, I was struck, how interestingly many musicians play. Earlier I did not even hear it.

Timofey: Listened to record, huh?

Daniel: Yes. A lot of interesting opens.

Timofey: That is music opens absolutely in a different way?

Daniel: Yes.

Timofey: If to sum up, council such: at first you descend on a concert, and then you come to shop, to showroom and listen as it can sound on speaker systems. Then, I am forced to warn, to someone, perhaps, it is necessary to throw out what at his place costs.

Daniel: Unfortunately and. There is no wish to offend anybody, but everything when understand that it is necessary to say goodbye to the old friends if something needs qualitatively to be changed face it. You will not do anything with it any more.

Timofey: Well, we warned you.

Daniel: Yes. Unfortunately, good cannot cost little. Very seldom [so happens: for example] when koto just presented to you or it was lucky. About concerts: I think, it is necessary to descend not on a big stadium concert, to listen to music there and to demand such sound of the house, namely on a concert with a good acoustic design of the hall.

Timofey: There, where the room is intended for concerts.

Daniel: Yes.

Timofey: Well. And what you will tell about clubs, for example, jazz clubs, too it seems small? As far as they are intended for this purpose as far as they can be taken as a standard?

Daniel: I think, the jazz perfectly there fits in. This music was born and appeared in such clubs therefore it also sounds as it is necessary. In respect of sounds it rather quiet and silent. Even plates sound specially, not as fatal plates which deafen. These play rather musically.

Everything on roots depends, on what was initially played in such rooms which are not intended for music. Well and the contrabass cannot play very loudly. It plays rather quietly therefore that it it was heard, all musicians should play too not really loudly that the balance was formed.

Timofey: In that case we will wish all balance, the correct sounding. But correct – not monitor, but correct it from which it will be possible to derive pleasure, to lighten mood, to receive new emotions from listening, maybe, even usual music.

Daniel: If goosebumps went, then you hit the mark, and for 100 percent derive pleasure from music and its listening. At me was so more than once, and I was surprised.

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